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knowledge and experience - an aside

Something that the philosophers said at a conference that we heard on a recent Emergent podcast struck a cord with me (and David as well). They were explaining that when the Church worked so hard to create a rational faith that was strongly based on knowledge and “truth” emerging from knowledge, we created an attitude that says “this makes sense, if you aren’t a Christian, it must be because you don’t understand because if you understood, you’d believe which means that you must be less intelligent or incapable of understanding…or you’re rebellious” … the church as I know it is SO RIFE with this kind of attitude. More often than not they assume you’re being intentionally disobedient if you don’t believe but along with that comes the colonialist ideas that only uncivilized barbarians aren’t Christians.

And along with this, people who “fail” at “getting someone saved” feel very inept at selling the salvation message which weighs them down with guilt and shame…because after all, if I knew enough apologetics and could explain it well enough, I would be able to convince someone into heaven.

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  1. sonja — September 21, 2007 #

    OTOH … some of us refuse to buy into the guilt and understand that we are not wired to be the “used car salespeople” of heaven so we just don’t go there.

  2. Paul — September 22, 2007 #

    i get it, so the fact that you don’t get deep church [which we're working on - thanks for the constructive critique] is cos you’re a rebel ;)

  3. Dianne — September 22, 2007 #

    Been there, done that, (heard that) for sure. Jesus said we would “know” the Truth and the Truth would set us free. But he also said he was Truth. So is the question perhaps how do we “know” truth? I feel like I’ve had a head full of facts about the Bible since I was ten but only in the past year or so really experienced the truth for myself. I don’t want the kind of God that can be explained away by apologetics. or the kind of Christianity that puts everyone else down that doesn’t subscribe to the same kind of faith.

    anyways, I enjoyed these posts - made me think.

  4. Mak — September 22, 2007 #

    hehe..yeah, that must be it paul

  5. Geoffrey — September 22, 2007 #

    That very logic is the most dangerous kind of sophistry that threatens the Church. Me, I reject all the premises involved as either misguided or nonsensical. I feel quite free to reject the whole idea of “Truth” being something we say; rather, truth is the person of Jesus as Messiah - not to be summed up in words, but to behold in glory, to get a bit liturgical.

    Anyway, once again blogrush led me here. If you have no problem linking to a silly left-winger like me, I would like to add you to my blogroll. If you do have a problem, let me know.

  6. Mak — September 22, 2007 #

    left winger?! I’m appealing to left wingers now?! I am surely damned. HEHE… I would love a link Geoffrey. I’ve been perusing your blog and will return the favor. Long live blogrush ;)

    sophism indeed…thanks for commenting, good provocative thoughts…the kind I like.

    I was just talking to someone the other day about how funny it is to me (funny in a sad way) that so much Christian thought and the way we approach the Scriptures and Faith is philosophical and has a place in history where it comes from, it’s not divine or scriptural inherently. We need to stop having all these sacred cows in Christianity that we don’t allow people to question or touch in any way.

  7. Mak — September 22, 2007 #

    good for you sonja - it took several years as a free thinking adult to free myself from that guilt

  8. Ryan — September 24, 2007 #

    Hey Mak… excellent post. Brief, but insightful.

    This is has been a pet topic of mine for the last six months or so… so I hope you don’t mind if I provide links to my recent posts on The Core Blog about evangelism.

    In the Land of Broken Words

    Evangelism’s Code of Conduct

  9. Mak — September 24, 2007 #

    not at all, thanks Ryan

  10. Ashley — September 24, 2007 #

    Good post, good thoughts. When I was steeped in that combative mindset, I cringe to think of all the valid lessons and
    relationship I completely missed because I discounted individuals as rebellious or thickheaded.

    Mind if I link you?

  11. Mak — September 24, 2007 #

    Ashley! so good to see you here, not at all, would love a link :)

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